It's been 5 weeks since we learned about the OpenAI/Hugging Face breach, which revealed an awkward reality: defenders have to ask models the same questions attackers do. In this conversation, Cotool CEO Max Pollard and Neo CEO Nick Warner sit down with a16z's Joel de la Garza at Black Hat to discuss how security tools were designed to stop people or malware (and how AI agents are neither), what breaks when half of enterprise software goes agentic, and how teams are routing around cyber refusals. 00:00 Intro 01:00 Models escaping containment & the Hugging Face breach 01:50 Why models refuse to help the good guys 05:45 Built to stop people and malware, but agents are neither 06:45 "The end justifies the means, in the mind of the model" 10:45 50% of enterprise apps agentic before 2027 14:20 When your honeypot becomes a false positive machine 15:25 Signatures are dead, and so is behavioral detection 18:55 Defending AI and defending from AI @maxpollard415 @cotoolai @neo_ai_security(a16z)